| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
0
   |
Posted - 2012.05.01 08:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option.
My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it. |
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
The source of the API's could also be from players who left corp x to join corp y where corp x uses the API.. but thats for the player to fix.. delete the old API and make a new one.
But this case mails send by others are made public. Also the EULA is intended for use inside EvE and CCP, not a third party website. But it aint the mails through an API that is a problem, but the sending party is no option at all.. they have no option to exclude the sended mail from the API. |
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Funny how dumb people can really be, or try to undermine the words being said by attacking the person and not the arguments. I am pretty sure everybody would burn CCP if they would make every mail public send ingame.
Quote:Are you complete moron ? No it can not. API is for character not for corp. If player left, API useless for spying.
I think u misread whay I said.. most corp and/or alliance require the player to send their API before they can join. If a player forgets to delete the key after he left the corp/alliance it can still be used by the former corp/alliance. Often people are not aware of this and even reuse the same key for the next corp/alliance they join.
Again, I do not mind that the mails can be accessed through the API but what I do mind that the sender has no control over his mail. There should be an option if the sended mail is available through the API. |
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 15:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
I am not a layer but a programmer with a Masters degree in Software Engineering. An important topic is "ethics". We, as programmers, are often asked to build something that is against privacy laws. Our duty is to point this out and even refuse to help with breaking the law..
In this case CCP did not, intentionaly, break any laws.. as the API was build with a good intention. But right now, parts of the API, are abused in breaking laws. CCP needs to act on this, maybe even change the API.
In almost every country it is against the law to make private information public, like mails. Nobody will go to court over this, thats for sure. I hope CCP received the message and will act upon and do the "ethical" thing. |
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
If a player would copy/paste the mail themselves then it their problem, CCP did not help them doing so.
Also, the receiver of a mail is not entitled to make the mail public without consent of the sender. Imagine the government to make everything public what was send to them, like letters, tax submissions, etc. Or a doctor who would make everything public about his patients, I mean.. he is free to share everything was is being shared with him, right? Wrong, it is all against the law.
feel free to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_privacy |
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another. |
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another. You may, but you're full of ****. CCP didn't hand over the API keys to the website, a player did. It's no different to handing over the username and password to the website so they can log on and copy the emails themselves. (Which of course is a breach of the EULA but does not break any laws in any country on the planet.)
It is, if the information is made public without the concent of the sender. Mind you that in my country it is against the law to open any mail or document (in a private section) which belongs to an employee, even if he is fired. |
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
I am a EvE player from 2005, I know how things work in EvE. This post was for CCP to read, not to fuel a discussion between fellow players. I am sure CCP devs have read this and will act upon as they see fit. |
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies.
I miss the option where MY mails are excluded from the API of another player. Aside of the legal aspect, what do you think what will happen with the ingame features "corp mail" and "alliance mail" when sites like these will become more common? |
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies. I miss the option where MY mails are excluded from the API of another player. Aside of the legal aspect, what do you think what will happen with the ingame features "corp mail" and "alliance mail" when sites like these will become more common? If you stop pretending there's a legal aspect I'm happy to explain this to you.
I am no layer, but as a developer I ain't allowed to make certain information public. This website and the use of the API has red flags all over them. I just here to point the red flags for you guys to make an educated decision.
As a player I really find this wrong. Meta gaming and spying has always been a part of EvE, but this is wrong. There is no interaction anymore, everything is automated. |
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Sorry I am no layer
Atleast you can't say "wir haben es nicht gewusst" anymore  |
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 14:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
You know, the whole problem is not about game related mails made public but personal information about stuff like health. The API does not filter those out. A spy would never copy/paste personal information to a public website as it holds no "ingame value" to be used.
Let me ask this: If I would post links to illegal content, like movies, and eveskunk automatic make them public. Who would be wrong? Eveskunk for making links to illegal content public? CCP for helping eveskunk retreiving the mails? The person sharing the API? Or the person sending a personal mail to his/her friends? |
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 17:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
First of all the EULA has no legal value, at all.. Torrent sites all have an EULA, yet they are all found illegal. Any EULA, or contract, that breaks the law in one way or another will be nullified. I do not know if the website, or the API, breaks any law but it is worth investigating by CCP and define a stance on such sites. But whether or not if it is against any law, atleast it is unethical.
I do think this topic needs to be locked as enough has been said. It is clear that the privacy laws is different for most players and any discussion on this topic is pointless. |
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 15:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Discussing law in a thread like these is difficult and a bit poinless.. Every nation has its own laws. Germany has very strict privacy laws where the USA seems to have no privacy laws at all
My point is, is that I think there might me some national laws being broken. While CCP is not breaking the law themselves, they are facilitating this. This case is different from a mail provider as you have to have the account login to retrieve mails which will also give total control to that account. With the API you can only retrieve information and is made with the intention to share with others. |
Geil Ding
Perkone
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 17:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sephira Galamore wrote:Geil Ding wrote:[...] While CCP is not breaking the law themselves, they are facilitating this. This case is different from a mail provider as you have to have the account login to retrieve mails which will also give total control to that account. With the API you can only retrieve information and is made with the intention to share with others. Well, slightly different example then.. let's say I share my personal Google Calendar with my family, for that I gave them the private URL to the calendar. When someone sends me a mail now that contains an appointment, this will be visible on my calendar. This is an option provided by the calendar and thus intended by Google. Now is Google to blame, when someone else gets hold of my private calendar URL, publishes the calendar on his public website and thus makes all appointment mails publicly available?
The URL is not private if it is accessible by everybody. At best it is a hidden URL. Some very known Torrent sites (won't post the names) are also found guilty (even with their base of operations outside the country) by facilitating breaking the law, yet they do not post the information themselves. |
| |
|